tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post6337540051069319969..comments2024-02-06T11:57:25.334-05:00Comments on The Frumanista: Our WayPrincess Leahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17217157534383672867noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-5721193226956237592014-01-03T11:57:34.876-05:002014-01-03T11:57:34.876-05:00(Head in hands, weeping)
Note I never said I was...(Head in hands, weeping) <br /><br />Note I never said I was receiving mixed messages, or felt confused. You say, "It can be harmful if a parent disagrees with a school so blatantly." If, you mean, my mother disagreeing with the principal, it would seem I emerged unscathed. <br /><br />I HIGHLY doubt it said anywhere in the school rules about an arbitrary line in skirt length. In those days, floor-length skirts were considered "bummy," since floor-length skirts were the style in general. Now every single BY girl I see now wears the very length my school abhorred. <br /><br />I was the good kid in school. Always. Because my parents placed an emphasis on respecting elders, even if they are totally off base. I was never chutzpadik. Even if I thought and my parents thought a teacher was off her rocker, I was quiet and diligent in all my classes. <br /><br />Here, a principal decided to arbitrarily pick on me, and she wasn't going to back down for no money. I can bet you that if I was another student, maybe one with a generous grandfather, she wouldn't have bothered. <br /><br />A + B doesn't always equal C. My parents rarely argued with teachers. Only when they felt the matter merited an argument. Princess Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17217157534383672867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-67103908718836269952014-01-02T12:42:52.244-05:002014-01-02T12:42:52.244-05:00Just that it can be harmful for a parent to disagr...Just that it can be harmful for a parent to disagree with the school so blatantly. It sends the kid mixed messages. Besides, the inches thing is not really about making you a good Jew, it's about following school rules. (It tells the kid first off that authority figures don't always have be regarded as such, and that they don't have to listen to school rules.) Do whatever you think makes you a good Jew at home, but in school follow the rules.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-62064574992068599782014-01-02T10:53:57.547-05:002014-01-02T10:53:57.547-05:00So we are agreed. Whenever I or my family heard of...So we are agreed. Whenever I or my family heard of a child going off the derech, we never blamed schools. It didn't even occur to us as a option. <br /><br />As I am saying here, my parents were the ones who gave me a sense of religion, and did not rely on schools. If they disagreed that my skirt was sufficiently modest being below the knee as opposed to mid-calf, they said so. That is what I am advocating here: more parental involvement and less outsourcing. Parents have to step up. <br /><br />So if we are agreed that everyone has a brain and I can choose and filter and we don't all have to keep the same things, then what exactly was your original objection? <br /><br />(BTW, for all the Anons out there, it would be easier for me if a tagline was used—even Anon 1). Princess Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17217157534383672867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-32277955652118061372014-01-01T17:15:02.379-05:002014-01-01T17:15:02.379-05:00Ahh, mixed messages are a problem even if we all s...Ahh, mixed messages are a problem even if we all share a common goal, because we don't all play the same position on the team. What works for him may not be right for you. Thus, looking at other Jews doing different things and following different rabbis doesn't send a child mixed messages if, like I said, he has someone to guide him in what's right for him. Mixed messages come from different mechanchim in the child's life telling him contradictory things. <br /><br />You're right, chinuch should primarily come from the home, but more and more nowadays unfortunately it does not. We rely on our schools to teach our children to be good Jews. I think that is why sadly so many of our kids have gotten lost. School cannot take the place of a warm loving family who instills the warmth and excitement of Yiddishkeit. <br /><br />As a side note, so many people are quick to blame the school system for kids who have left Yiddishkeit or are on the brink of leaving, but if it's really like you said, that school should teach skills and history and whatnot, then why is it their fault??<br /><br />Back to the subject here though...Because kids don't get a sense of Jewish identity or love of Judaism from their families, we rely on schools to do that job. So, if you're entrusting this job to the school, you can't contradict them!<br /><br />Obviously there is no school that is tailored to fit each individual's specific hashkafos, but that's why we have a brain. Filter! School is a microcosm of one's life. Each person must learn to take what applies to them within the ramifications of what their individual rav holds them to. <br /><br />Everyone doesn't have to keep to the same things. Perkei Avos says "Aseh L'cha Rav." Each person needs their own rabbi, and he must follow what the rabbi holds to be true. What may be okay for me can be a sin for you. Yet, somehow it all works...because we were not meant to be the same! <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-88525326158461731692014-01-01T12:22:44.666-05:002014-01-01T12:22:44.666-05:00Anon: In terms of "big, chaotic mess," J...Anon: In terms of "big, chaotic mess," Judaism is unique in that in that hodgepodge yes, we all have a common goal. That said, where would mixed messages be a problem, if we all have the same goal? <br /><br />No, a child does not ignore everything a teacher says. A teacher is supposed to teach basics: Aleph-beis. Rashi. Basic halacha (which can get messy because different rabbanim differ in rulings). <br /><br />However, when a teacher says "The only way to be a good frum girl is if you marry a sitting and learning boy," I am not "allowed" to object? I can't speak? I must silently accept? That sounds a lot like Christianity, not like Judaism. We are encouraged to question. If the question cannot be answered, well, "No one died from an unanswered question." <br /><br />"Don't send a child to a school where you disagree with the hashkafa"—like there is a school out there that is perfectly tailored to every individual home? Please. So what if I or my parents disagree with a teacher? It's not the end of the world! We can still all be frum, like you said, right? <br /><br />Mesorah is from family, not who is arbitrarily assigned as my morah from year to year. I have free will, and so do you. <br /><br />Gavi: They totally missed the forest for the trees. Kinda sad, really. <br /><br />Nechama: Oh, sweetie, am I right that you don't teach in the NY-area, or even in the US? Schools can be large behemoths that have four 30-student classes per grade, and for the sake of economy and simplicity they don't focus on the individual child. We're less individualistic here, there's less variety, funnily enough. And many teachers or principals are all "It's my way or the highway": No teamwork. <br /><br />I hate confrontation. My sympathies. <br /><br />My parents expected good grades from me, not from the morahs; if I didn't do well it was always my fault, not my teachers. My parents are Europeans; no slacking off there. Princess Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17217157534383672867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-34775164092341251912014-01-01T07:20:57.586-05:002014-01-01T07:20:57.586-05:00I'm reading and going "phew" because...I'm reading and going "phew" because the school I plan to send my daughter to does not hold standards that I approve of. I want a daughter more modestly dressed than my students. <br /><br />That being said, as a teacher I emphasize hashkafa over cracking down on the dress code. Maybe it's not sending the message home, but I try to stick with what actually WORKS.<br /><br />Then again, I might just be wary of confrontation, too.<br /><br />And PL, I think that when parents and school disagree it can undermine the chinuch. Why would a student listen to a teacher if parents hold otherwise? Parents should view staff as teammates in raising and guiding their children. Schools should reciprocate and work together. Brings to mind the classic cartoon: when once the parent demanded high marks from the child, now the parents demand high marks form the teacher, without student needing to feel any degree of responsibly...Nechamahttp://focusmimi.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-2228072305901039622013-12-31T23:16:51.422-05:002013-12-31T23:16:51.422-05:00It never fails to amaze me how some Jewish school ...It never fails to amaze me how some Jewish school systems seem to think that their particular version of the dress code is more important than the rest of halacha and hashkafa put together!Gavinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-36751302615849504732013-12-31T19:37:38.249-05:002013-12-31T19:37:38.249-05:00No to the first, because hopefully the people that...No to the first, because hopefully the people that the child looks to for guidance can lead him about what is right for him. <br /><br />As a side note, "big chaotic mess" sounds derogatory. I like to think of Judaism as a team or such that has a bunch of different people wearing different uniforms because they all have different jobs towards achieving the team's goal. <br /><br />So then a child should ignore everything that her teachers in school say? What's the point of going to school then? Don't send a child to a school where you disagree with the hashkafa!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-79845660092338236512013-12-31T10:30:00.141-05:002013-12-31T10:30:00.141-05:00Judaism is a big, chaotic mess, and every Jew has ...Judaism is a big, chaotic mess, and every Jew has their own ideas of what the ideal is. Does that mean for every type of Jew a child bumps into, he will be confused by mixed messages? <br /><br />Mixed messages are only a problem inside of the home. If, let's say, a parent demands a certain type of behavior but doesn't follow through on their end. (The psychologist who is a friend of the family told us so). Princess Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17217157534383672867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6017927177231080668.post-67634548469913921282013-12-30T18:39:17.615-05:002013-12-30T18:39:17.615-05:00Schools need to have certain rules for the sake of...Schools need to have certain rules for the sake of consistency. If you don't want to abide by them, you don't must attend that school. Whether or not these rules help you (later) in life is irrelevant. It isn't really about that.<br /><br />While chinuch should primarily come from the home, it becomes a problem when a parent disagrees with the school (in a less machmir way) and makes it known to the kid. Mixed messages is what can more likely send a kid in calf-length skirts into jeans. Just saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com