And I don't mean cobalt-hued hosiery.
Can men handle educated women? It has been the view for quite some time that most can't, but that turns out to be yet another myth. (This article was mentioned on other blogs, but I still want to analyze it further).
Can men handle educated women? It has been the view for quite some time that most can't, but that turns out to be yet another myth. (This article was mentioned on other blogs, but I still want to analyze it further).
I don't think I am imagining it when men get nervous from what I know. I don't put that blame squarely on the lap of higher education; I only have my BA. I have always been interested in history and different cultures, with a penchant for polysyllabic vocabulary, and I can spit back useless information which I may find interesting but no one else does ("Trivial Pursuit" is my game).
I often find myself on a date with equally college-educated men, who are well-read and are learn-ed, and they look at me in horror. I don't understand what the big deal is, because I am always happy to learn something new and obviously there is something he may know of that I don't. Why can't we just exchange ideas?
During a talk I recently gave to a women’s group in San Francisco, an audience member said, “I want him to respect what I know, but I also want him to know just a little more than me.” One of my students once told me, “it’s exciting to be a bit in awe of a guy.” For a century, women have binged on romance novels that encouraged them to associate intimidation with infatuation; it’s no wonder that this emotional hangover still lingers.
Seriously? The only romance novels that appealed to me were the ones when the two had a battle of the wits, like Lizzy and Darcy. After telling him off soundly on more than one occasion, she couldn't exactly have been in awe of him. How can these women clutch P&P as their love bible then cast the message aside?
The most important predictor of marital happiness for a woman is not how much she looks up to her husband but how sensitive he is to her emotional cues and how willing he is to share the housework and child-care. And those traits are often easier to find in a low-key guy than a powerhouse.
Sure, men are flailing as they try to find a role which is now "acceptable" to women. They have to be manly yet not overbearing; educated, but slightly more than a specific female; handy with a mop in a macho sort of way; in tune to feelings while still a rock. Women have actually decided that Fabio exists in real life. I'm starting to feel sorry for the dudes.
Do I want a man to help me with housework? No, not really, if I manage to make my dream of being a stay-at-home mommie a reality. If he works full time, taking out the garbage occasionally is enough, and I don't need him reinventing my system of letting dust bunnies lie.
Do I need him to be "sensitive to my emotional cues"? Well, there lies the assumption that I am an unreasonably emotional individual just because I am female. I hope I should be able to verbalize what is bothering me, instead of marrying a psychic.
Do I need him to be "sensitive to my emotional cues"? Well, there lies the assumption that I am an unreasonably emotional individual just because I am female. I hope I should be able to verbalize what is bothering me, instead of marrying a psychic.
In our world, obviously, where girls currently go to college or get a job faster than the guys, we gals often know more due to exposure.
We assume our man will know stuff, just not the same stuff as we do. Girls spend high school hunched over Tanach, while men have barely any idea what is going on in there. Girls can rattle off bios of shoftim in catchy tunes (I actually only remember Ehud ben Gera), but our men have to be okay with that, since they don't have much choice in the matter.
So why is it such an issue for them if I say things like "Little Ice Age"?
So why is it such an issue for them if I say things like "Little Ice Age"?
"Do I want a man to help me with housework? No, not really, if I manage to make my dream of being a stay-at-home mommie a reality. If he works full time, taking out the garbage occasionally is enough, and I don't need him reinventing my system of letting dust bunnies lie."
ReplyDeleteTrust me on this one- you want a man who wants to help you with housework. I am married to a man who shares the household work with me (we both work fulltime), and last week when I came home Friday afternoon he had cleaned and vaccummed the whole apartment so that I wouldn't have to. I can't tell you what that feeling is like to know that your husband wants to help make YOUR life eaiser. I hope your full-time mommy dream comes true, but in this economy that may not be a reality and you want to be with someone who is helpful whether you are working or not.
Take a poll of women who have married for decades and ask them if they think it's virtuous for a man to help with housework.
"Do I need him to be "sensitive to my emotional cues"? Well, there lies the assumption that I am an unreasonably emotional individual just because I am female. I hope I should be able to verbalize what is bothering me, instead of marrying a psychic."
'Emotional cues' does not automatically mean you are an unreasonably emotional individual because you are female. What it does mean is that when you are married and your husband sees you at your best and worst, you want someone who is open to learning about what your needs are. Yes, it's important to be able to verbalize what you want, but as someone married to an emotionally intuitive man, I can tell you that it is a huge blessing to have in a marriage.
Perhaps you are assessing this need based on your emotional life right now. However, a good marriage means being able to be vulnerable with each other, and if you're married to someone who isn't interested or able to learn your emotional cues, that process will be more difficult. Most women agree that they became more emotional after they got married- doesn't mean they became unreasonably irrational- but it does mean that you want to be with someone who wants to know how to be there for you, even without you saying the words.
Note I made a point to say, "IF my dream of being a STAHM comes true." My background comes in to this, where my father was the busiest at work when yontif rolled around. So Ma developed a system of sorts, which I have learned, in how to be able to run a house without a man's hands.
ReplyDeleteMy own experiences are limited enough that I believe finding a "housebroken" man is near impossible, ergo, they don't exist. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised later on.
If we both work, then of course he wouldn't be able to opt out of house duties. He'll have to learn how to operate a vacuum cleaner.
Yes, a husband should be there for a wife. Being menschlach is not the same as being in tune to emotional cues. Proper behavior means he will be there for his wife, whenever, whatever.
Such an interesting discussion. You asked, "Can men handle educated women? It has been the view for quite some time that most can't, but that turns out to be yet another myth."
ReplyDeleteI think men's very nature is to give. They want to be the mashpia, the one who knows more. They want to direct. I don't dumb myself down, but I let my husband "teach" me if he wants to. Makes him happy: why not?
My mother was telling a story about this woman who always acted helpless and dependent on her hubby. After he passed away, she said, "What, you think I really was like that?"
ReplyDeleteI think initially men want to be leaned on, but eventually it gets old. So might as well pretend in the beginning? Maybe.
I think that the frum world is very behind the times. The reason many (most?) frum men feel insecure when you know more than them is because they come into relationships with women with the idea that their value in the relationship is entirely dependent on being "The Male", ie more knowledgeable, tougher, cooler. If women understood they were just as capable and independent as men, and weren't taught that they're incomplete without men, they wouldn't be looking for superman. The fact is frum women come out of school knowing more and are therefore actually better suited for making it in the modern world (at least until the men catch up). They need to recognize that and adjust their sights to just look for partners, not fantasy beings. And maybe men can get a freakin education too in yeshiva. That would help too.
ReplyDeleteThis article is not even reflecting the Jewish community, and there are gentile women out there who want, as you say, Fabio.
ReplyDeleteBut I would think after dating awhile people would realize that their fantasy needs a bit of adjustment.
And if females need to adjust, why shouldn't men? If they decide not to pursue higher education, they can't be surprised if a girl knows more than them.
I was just responding because you said that in your experience most frum men have this problem. I tend to agree, and since I don't know anything about the non-frum dating scene, I took the lady's word for it who said it's a myth. As always, there's no real data on this, especially in the frum community where things like psychological surveys are chadash assur min hatorah.
ReplyDeleteThat's true. The system is the real problem. It doesn't give guys an option. It's enforcing an old reality on a new world. When people change and the rules don't, of course there will be problems of this sort. It's a reflexive property.
Here's an very good blog post I just found by someone calling himself "highly comfortable guy". not frum:
ReplyDeletehttp://edwardhotspur.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/highly-comfortable-guys-and-the-women-they-love/
What Ed is saying is what I suggested in another post regarding Halberstam: If a girl has no self confidence, no matter what her looks are, no guy is going to like her unless he's looking for a doormat.
ReplyDeleteI avoid terms like "the system." If someone chooses to opt-in to a 1984 mindset, that is their problem. I'm not sympathetic to so-called "pressure." It's easy to go along with what everyone else is doing. But people shouldn't consider that a defense.
The world, in general, is rife with insecurity; we have too much time on our hands to dwell on ourselves.
You sound like a very strong person. But how many people would ever "choose" to live in a 1984 system? It's because there's enough pressure and consequences to persuade most people to follow it. That's why it works. Only really secure people (confident, rich) or people who are getting nothing out of staying (failures, emotionally vulnerable people) ever leave.
ReplyDeleteIt's not me. I was raised in a home that did what makes sense to it. My parents are vehemently against sitting and learning; in the long run, it's not self-sustaining. My brothers work to support their families, as my parents made them. Halachically, a man is only supposed to wed when he can provide for his brood; if he is learning, he doesn't have to marry.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what benefits there are to following with the crowd. People think they are standing out and are special by being one of many.